Racism
Something I find interesting about all the news about 'racism' in Australia that everyone throws the word about without actually having a decent definition of its meaning. This is because I think there is a difference between racism and commenting generally on a social group's characteristics.
For example, people from a Middle Eastern background generally respect their women less than people of a caucasian background. It is not any more racist for me to say that than to say that British people mainly speak the English language. The fact is that there are certain characteristics assossiated with certain societal groups, and pointing these out is not racism.
So what is racism then? Does someone want to start the discussion off?
EDIT: Try not to use any dictionary references until we have had a good discussion about it :)
posted by Dboy @ Wednesday, December 14, 2005
46 Insightful Contributions
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46 Comments:
Hahaha, ok :)
Maybe racism involves an aspect of anger or judgement?
Good topic!
I think racism is generally an emotion towards a particular "group" of people either fueled by ignorance or hate with little to no regard for individuals from that group.
i think racism is the same as any other comments, except used in a more derogatory way
Generally I would say it is an implied judgement, rather than an amoral statement. When you atribute blame or responsibility for what you are accusing someone of, then if becomes racist.
i think its judging someone just because they're from a certain race, it's okay to make general comments but not derogatory ones.
At my dad's work there was a big terrorist scare because someone saw an indian man looking 'suspicious'... i spose thats racism though the woman who saw him isn't someone i'd call a racist person
racism, schmacism... The job?? The job??
Did you get the job?
Hahaha! Thanks for posting revhead - i have genuinely missed you.
Some great responses guys - what I'm generally hearing from everyone are these elements. Racism involves:
- saying or thinking something negatively about another person.
- making an assumption about someone based on aesthetics (ie. visual characteristics or even name) that is negativeor positive.
Does that seem like a fair summary? Can anyone think of any situations where this might not apply?
my definition of racism would be simply that it is prejuidice based on race. simple, no? it can be positive or negative. but generally positive racism is just the flip-side of a negetive view of all other groups and is just spin on exclusivity.
where it comes from and how subtle (as in the case of AP's indian) or even how present it is in our day to day thinking varies completely from person to person. though some generalities have to be able to be made without the cry of racism being leveled at everyone who does. eg. indian people like curry, asian people are short, etc. though i don't think that dboy's comment on middle eastern respect for women is either true or comes completely under that heading since it is too subjective and based on western values.
I think that he Borg are the ultimate raciscts, as a philosophy of life.
I don't think racism is just prejudice or hatred toward another - these are sideproducts, but a genuine belief in the superiority or inferiority of another sentient species. According to their values, the Borg are behaving morally. Evolutionary advancement of superior traits.... AND weeding the galaxy of inferior 'weeds'
Colloquially, what we mean by racism is often parochialism (concerned only with narrow local concerns without any regard for more general or wider issues). Eg. Sam's wariness of 'big people in Bree o
This causes suspicion, fear or arrogance. ( I always cringe when I hear untravelled people confidently assert that their ways are best!... "Can't beat Aussie beer, what would those Poms know?".... Soccer? Huh! Nuthin' on Aussie rules!!" "He's OUR Russell Crowe!!")
Good point from the wire about middle eastern views toward women. dboy and I had a conversation about this and you (wire) just made the point that I was attempting to say ( in a much more articulate way!) It is very difficult (maybe impossible?) to make a statement like that without projecting our world view and values onto the situation.
I couldn't agree more chrystal and wire! We project our own ideals onto others and judge them accordingly. Just because that's what we believe, doesn't make it right. And even if it is right, how can we force that on anyone else? how arrogant!
I agree to some degree (hey, I rhymed), but if we are to assert any kind of moral truth (ie. murder is wrong), then we are committing 'racism' against those cultures who think that murder is ok.
Let me apply this to a real situation:
Peebody alerted me to the gang rape of a woman in Sydney recently by eight men of lebanese descent. Their defense was to say that rape is not illegal in their country.
Is rape wrong? If we say 'yes', then by your definition we are being racist against these people because, quote, "we project our own ideals onto others and judge them accordingly".
I am well aware, however, that there are many lebanese people who would consider rape to be extremely wrong, and part of my theory incorporates that there are always exceptions to the majority - but there is a majority in some cases and it is inconsistent (hypocritical?) to not apply the same principle in each occasion.
I think racism is the uneducated judgement of another group or race. Its actually kinda scary that in australia its almost faux par to mention another race. You may have noticed in the news now they are no longer allowed to say "Asian" or "Hispanic" etc... when describing crimes that have been commited. I think australia is choking on its own political correctness and as such, racism has now been contorted in the public eye to be anything past the mere mention of another race.
Thats just my opinion anyhow.
RJP.
I agree. It's hard to know when to assert moral law and when it is projecting your ideals onto others.
Well said wire!
I think that's the point I was making, Wire :)
well, now i think we got that sorted. [not to change the topic but..] how'd u go on the job dboy?
Oh, ok.
Not sure crazy - they haven't rung yet. I sent them an email last night but they haven't replied yet. I think I'll ring tomorrow.
if there's a sure-fire way to get a job it's by hassling them until they can be hassled no more!
lol, what about a little hassling?
Hassling means you have interest... and who would hire someone who doesn't seem interested?!?
Hassle away, dboy! And then don't forget to post when you know... otherwise, you'll leave us all hanging!
*hangs*
*joins cray-z*
Merry Christmas dboy and all!
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Hope everyone had a lovely Christmas- we did! We're packing up and off to Queensland, should be fun. Wishing you each a blessed, prosperous and fulfilling year ahead. See you next year!
*YAWNS*
This post is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo last year....
Get into the groove dboy - it's 2006!!
Get back from your holidays already!
I'm back and im bad....
http://revheadsjourney.blogspot.com/
but dboy isn't back!
he's back now ! Post away dboy!!!
hey maybe if we all spam him with comments saying post..
post
postpostpost!!!!
PPPPPPPPOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!
spam spam spam spam..
i mean, urr.. POST POST POST POST!!
POST!!!!
Dboy, you're making us all cry. Please come back to us...
maybe someone should start sending him 'post post post' emails? then he'll get annoyed and post about it :P
I'll be back soon - when I don't have guests :)
Ohhhh, so now we know where we stand in the pecking order, guests, eh? Guests require time and attention, eh!!!???
Here we all are sitting around in the lounge room of your site as .... GUESTS...
The dip has gone dry and cracked, the beernuts bowl is upturned on the carpet, those wierd pretzel shapes are all broken. There's mold growing up the insides of the empty bottles on the kitchen bench. THERE IS NO MORE DRINK!
We've raided the pantry and made vinegar, soy and tomato sauce cocktails garnished with wheetbix... there's guys so in need of a drink, they're experimenting with the goldfish's water.
There's a stale fetid stench in the air, like you find wafting out of a nightclub at 7am the next day when the cleaners are called in. The jukebox is down to 70s favorites... actually, we had favorites, they're playing 70s stinkers!!!
The guys at the table playing Monopoly have loooong since had the manadtory angry fight about cheating, made up AND FINISHED the game - unheard of - and are now down to playing noughts and crosses on the tablecloth.
The big fat candles have burned down to a greasy stain across the low coffee tables. The only light is from the Christmas tree lights from last christmas. Mushrooms are growing in the pine needle compost on the carpet under them.
We are so bored and hungry , we have stooped to the unthinkable and have opened thar tin of cheap butter cookies you buy from Target for $4.99 that no one ever eats... we are eating the paper wrappers.
several of us have scrouunged bits of old furniture and video covers and built shelters in whch to rest.
But we have faith: " I'm just popping out to look after some guests", you lightly said as you slipped out of the door into that other reality.
We shuffled uncomfortably on the couch, glanced nervously at each other, helped ourselves to another handful of chips and waited and waited and waited, "He'll be back any second now"
We've had three funerals in here. Moving affairs. Buried the last guy in the couch and put the cushions back on top. Brought us together it did. recently we've begun thinking about our future... For example, agriculture. there a plans afoot to drain the sink and plant rice. The mushrooms have been harvested and we are looking at expanding that to the shagpile in the bathroom. Though its wild and dangerous in there. We've hade people lost in there and heard their screams ... but they've never returned.
Anyway, if you find this plea for help in it's metphorical bottle bobbing the ethereal waves of the net - anyone - heeeelp we're trapped as guests on DBOYs site.... Help.
*puts down the quill made from a budgie's feather. rolls up parchment, made from skin of family cat, stuffs it into neck of bottle and throws it through screen onto the web. Falls back exhausted by effort.*
I'm going to leave this as top post for a while now, just so people can see that post...
but it's funny! silly peebody :P
dboy maybe you could post and just copy and paste the comment in?
*beats up Dboy* POOOOOOOOOOOOST!!!
Revhead, you're a crack up!
bloody hell im here, in thailand, looking for something to read. i figure 'hey, dboy hadnt posted yet this year, he'll have sometimg interesting to say' but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
so i blame you, for making me bored in another country.
POST DAMMIT POST
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